For those of you who wonder why I harp so much on Christians being respectful of the president and Christ-like in their character, and wonder why I would be so condescending as to point out that we should be respectful when that should be a given, I would like to present to you the following Facebook conversation. It was held today (November 8) between a bunch of local professing Christians I do know, most of whom I have gone to church with for years, and one bright and brave young non-Christian man, referred to here as Ryan, who has learned at a young age how to have civil discourse--even when there is serious disagreement. Note: All names have been changed to no longer resemble the originals. First names have been used to represent teenagers and Mr./Mrs. names have been used to represent adults. I have refrained from correcting spelling, grammar and punctuation except in extreme cases where it was absolutely necessary for clarity. Extraneous bits of the conversation which have no bearing whatsoever on the flow of ideas have been removed for the sake of fluency.
ORIGINAL POST:
Matilda: Oh joy Obama won...yay now we shall suffer for 4 more years.... yeah this country will probably die.... and be more in debt... And we shall have a monkey as the temporary ruler of our country... And other bad things will surely happen that we arent even aware of at the moment... BUT!! In the words of my very smart youth pastor, "God is in control and has a reason for this and he wasnt surprised that Obama won." Who knows maybe some serial killer will assassinate him and then the killer will get thrown in prison and we rid our country of two repulsive human beings :D
But anywho at least next time we get to vote for a new president i will be old enough to vote :)
WHOOHOO!!!
COMMENTS:
Mrs. Andersen: good way of thinking Matilda!! you never know what will happen....
Ryan: This is just offensive. Every point on here has been disregarded by people multiple times. If the republicans in the house suck it up, and play ball, the country will get better. As long as they just don't sit down and VETO everything. Also, Obama is liked by more people in this country than Romney. Live with that fact. It's over, and this post is incredibly uncouth and offensive.
Mrs. Andersen: lol i wasnt offended:)
Ryan: You may not have been offended, but hoping that someone assassinates ANYONE is wrong. It's morally unacceptable. Maybe you should ask your youth pastor about hoping someone gets killed...pretty sure that's a sin.
Lily: I think that God is in control and I think you were very right about that Matilda but assassinating was funny you weren't series (sic-
serious)
were you buddy? lol, and Ryan, if you don't like it don't read it ..:)
Lily: It made me laugh ..lol but in a kidding way
Mrs. Baker: Mr. Ryan we deal daily with people wanting certain people to be politically correct so as not to offend someone. Well I am offended that that man was re-elected. I am offended that many people in this country can say ANYTHING they want to and we have to accept that, but if we say something they do not like then we are offensive and uncouth. Hmmmm....go figure...okay for one, but not the other. Free country still....freedom of speeh still.
Ryan: I wasn't disregarding anyone's rights for free speech at all! I was simply pointing out the flawed correlation between the two point that she had in this post. Hoping that any person dies is inherently wrong, as people have a right to "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." And, he is our new Commander-in-Chief. We should respect him, for if the people don't rally behind him, compromise can never occur. The closeness of the election has made it clear that compromise is what the people want.
Mrs. Andersen: oh my gosh Ryan, Matilda is a 14 year old girl. do you really think she actually wishes death on anyone?!!! you should try to learn sarcasm, it can get you pretty far in life.
Ryan: I'm a 14 year old boy, and you shouldn't be using sarcasm on the internet. Sarcasm is an inflection of tone in the voice, and inflection is near impossible to interpret through text.
Ryan: Also, I know Matilda and I'm just letting her know that people take things different ways on the internet, and some people won't be as passive as I am being.
Lily: k
Matilda: oh my gosh Ryan i dont give a frick what you think about me or this post. and dont bring my youth pastor into this hes a far cooler person then you because he can actually take a joke and understand sarcasm without having to hear a tone of voice. and if you are offended by this well too bad because i didn't write this trying to please you. i stated my opinion and if you disagree go write it in your diary and not on my post.
Mrs. Calhoun: Ryan are you saying that republicans should "suck it up" when it comes to things like murdering unborn children or marriage between the same sex? if so i am praying for your soul....
Mrs. Dexter: Ryan, what do you mean when you say everything in her post has been disregarded? To disregard something is not to disprove it. It is a fact that our country will be in more debt. Obama has increased our government spending by more than every past president combined and he will continue at a more severe rate now. He has nothing to lose this is his last term. secondly the house doesn't VETO anything. Thirdly, of course more people like Obama. He is wise to the fact that if you put the majority of the people in a situation where they depend on you for their mere survival they will vote for you. Now that more than half of our population have an entitlement mentality instead of a producer and contributor mentality we are on our way to a full blown socialist society.
Mrs. Dexter: Matilda, your post could have been a little more tactful. Just sayin
Ryan: First, Matilda I didn't say you wrote the post for me, and you can't say he would take a joke, as he has had no input on this post. Mrs. Calhoun, I have no feelings towards the issue of marriage. If they want to get married, it's not hurting me or you.
Ryan: Mrs. Dexter, First, Obama hasn't increased spending, he simply hasn't slowed it down. Second, Your right, I was incorrect in the "VETO" part of it, but they can stop bills from reaching the president in the first place. Third, They don't "Depend on him for mere survival" He has actually tried to implement stricter welfare laws and want's to make it so that people who live in a house with an income of $50,000 or more per year (I think that's the number) can not receive welfare. I don't agree with his promoting of the entitlement mentality, but I agree more with Obama than I did with Romney.
Lily: Hm how old are you ?
Ryan: 14
Ryan: I've stated this before
Tia: Matilda... you crack me up.
Lily: First of all little man : Mrs. Andersen and Mrs. Calhoun are adults and you shouldn't be talking to them like that ....second your a kid you don't know anything and you don't know what is good for our country honestly nobody does except God ..Im not saying Obama is a horrible person, but he supports murder and that not something I support in a president ..and ya just let it go... We obviously are gonna think what we think so
Mrs. Emerson: Mrs. Baker, wishing I could like your response multiple times.
Ryan: Lily, I'm just as informed as many of the voters in this election, and I am not talking to them disrespectfully. I am in LD Debate, and proper procedure is everything. A basic statement of facts is nothing inappropriate. We can have a regular discussion like mature people, or you can continue to refer to me as "little man" as it makes no difference when I present said facts. Obama won the election, and he has 4 years. That can not be changed.
Lily: You are little ..lol half the things you just said I didn't understand honestly no one cares
Mr. Fenton: Ryan are you using the argument that BHO doesn't write the laws, just signs them into law and implements them so he isn't responsible for the spending? Am I tracking so far?
Mrs. Dexter: I appreciate Ryan's ability to voice his opinion and admit when he's mistaken. He was offended by Matilda saying she hoped the president would be shot. He also said more people in our country liked Obama than Romney. That appears to be true. unfortunately for Ryan the fact that more people agree doesn't make it right. Matt 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Ryan: Lily, I'll break it down for you.
1. I'm just as informed as the majority of voters (basic statement)
2. I'm not talking to anyone on this post disrespectfully, I'm simply stating facts
3. I am in LD Debate (A speech event) and know how to talk to people respectfully
4. You can call me "little man" but my facts won't change
5. Obama won the election. That's not going to change
Ryan: We shouldn't be using religion in an argument of facts.
Ryan: Mrs. Emerson, laws have to go through Congress before he can sign them. He may draft the laws, but that doesn't mean they will pass.
Mrs. Dexter: Who are you to decide this is an argument of facts? As I recall this began as a post of Matilda's opinions
Mrs. Emerson: Ryan, I surmise that you are not completely ignorant. Please support your "facts", otherwise they are only statements.
Lily: UHM .... I never said the election was gonna change
Ryan: Mrs. Dexter, I have done nothing but post facts. Mrs. Emerson, I have a list of sources if you would like them, but it will be long. Perhaps I could message them to you? Lily, This was more reinforcing the point of joining behind the president to help give him the public voice instead of demeaning him as our leader.
Mrs. Dexter: So, because you decide to treat Matilda's post like a high school debate I am required to do so also?
Mr. Fenton: so BHO requests a healthcare law, gets it, and signs it and increases our debt by a cool trillion $ but doesn't increase spending? how does that work?
Mrs. Andersen: i wonder how many notifications Matilda has gotten? lol
Mrs. Dexter: I have a feeling Matilda couldn't care less about this post anymore
Ryan: Mrs. Dexter, I'm not treating it as a High School debate. I stated that I am in debate, so I know how to talk to people who are older than me in a respectable manner. Also, facts are facts, that's just what they are. Arguing opinions is like trying to state that ducks and cows are the same things. People have their opinions, and that's what makes our country great. This whole debate started because supporting a post about hoping someone dies is uncouth, and I was simply stating that I did not find it appropriate on the public stage. That's my opinion, and I have every right to it
Mrs. Dexter: I would argue that my use of scripture was not being used to prove that the majority of the USA are wrong but the inverse
Ryan: Yes, but people have different ideas of what proper scripture is, so for some people it is as foreign as speaking French.
Mrs. Emerson: I do believe you are the first liberal thinking person I have ever seen conduct himself with civility and manners, and so I applaud that, and encourage you to continue to endeavor to pursue civility in arguing your position. I think this conversation is better served if you are able to string your support into your argument rather than simply posting like a footnote. I can say the sky is green.... that doesn't make it a fact. You see what I mean? It is imperative that a person support statements with fact, rather than simply making a statement and declaring it to be fact (though it appears colleges don't teach logic anymore, if you're lucky you'll have instructors that require you to recognize the differences).
Mrs. Dexter: and I believe the bible is truth, that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The fact that I used a scripture in my comment does not change my point. The fact that a large number of people believe something does not make it true
Mrs. Emerson: large numbers believed the world was flat....
Mrs. Dexter: I agree Mrs. Emerson, it is refreshing to be able to hold a conversation with someone who feels differently but can stay respectful and speak his mind. It is so common for people to get frustrated and lash out in anger. I have not seen that from Ryan yet. Kudos Ryan
Mrs. Emerson: (in response to a deleted comment) no, she should not remove her post. It is her wall. It is her opinion and she has a right to it. Others around this country post or tweet far more horrendous sounding comments with impunity because they are free to. It is their right. No, what she said doesn't sound very pleasant but the 1st Amendment is not a conditional statement. It does not require that we be "nice" in what we say.
Ryan: Thank you both for your comments, and I do want to thank you for a civilized argument. I do not believe in anger, as it only adds more negativity to the points that I support. Mrs. Emerson, Large numbers did believe the earth was flat, until the were proven wrong by facts.
Ryan: I hope that maybe after this argument, you do not change your views, but you look upon people with different views as people who can be civilized.
Mrs. Emerson: Ryan, you leave me with a shred of hope.
Ryan: Now, I feel as though this post has run it's course.
Mrs. Dexter: Well then, so be it
Ryan: Thank you all for such an intriguing debate. I enjoyed it thoroughly! Even though we may disagree on certain points, this shows that compromise can be made, and I can only hope the our current politicians see that.